http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 en-US 60 <p>Hi …....<br /> I don’t want to tell any more which Buddhism group is right or wrong.<br /> You should find the truth deeply from history of Buddhism.Think about some of questions<br /> 1)How many religion of groups have in India before and after Gautama Buddha’s time?</p> <p>2) After First Buddha Council, which group of monk Buddhism group change and add the original version of Buddha Scripture?</p> <p>3) Why original Buddhism group need to hold the Second Buddha Council to prevent the danger of group of monks who want to break the original rules and disciplines of monks and change and add the original version of Buddha scripture ?</p> <p>4) Which Buddhism groups set up new group by combining the ideas,methods and theory of other religions and original version of Buddha scripture?</p> <p>5) Why original Buddhism group chase out groups of monk who want to change and add the original Buddha scripture and break the original rules and disciplines of monks from the country? Which places do the bad monks of groups who are chased out from country in ancient times go and do what?</p> <p>5) Why the whole India country lost original Buddhism and became Hindu after over 200 years counting from Gautama Buddha passed away.</p> <p>6) Which buddhism group prevent the Buddha Scripture by sacrificing their life and how they overcome the difficulties of lifes and danger from enemy?</p> <p>7) How many and which buddhism groups and how they spreads out the buddhism towards the whole Asia, Western and middle east countries in ancient times?</p> Thu, 22 May 2008 09:58:12 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8104186 sofital http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by sofital:</div> <div class="quote_body">For me, I prefer to read the original version of Buddha scripture defined by First Buddha Council.Any new words, methods and rules that are not inside in origianl Buddha scripture is rejected.From history of Buddhism, after holding of first Buddha council, The monk original group is divided into two major groups( Theravadda and Mahayana).Now there are so many major buddhism groups due to that some monks want to add ,edit or modify the original version of Buddha scripture.For those who want to add,edit or modify Buddha scirpture form new major Buddhism group.They lost the essence of Dhamma.In this world, as some peope has less knowledge in history of Buddhism, they are easily to be persuaded by new formed buddhism group.</div> </blockquote> <p>Let's put aside whether all the mahayana translated scripture was discussed in the first buddha council. But if we are to reject all the new words that comes after it, then we cannot read or buy buddhism book anymore, as I am sure more than 99% of the modern buddhism book are written by buddhists.</p> Wed, 21 May 2008 21:29:41 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8102861 justdoit77 http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Thusness:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p><br /> Hi Longchen,</p> <p>I can see the synchronization of emptiness view into your non-dual experiences --. Integrating view, practice and experience.&nbsp; This is the essence of our emptiness nature and right understanding of non-dual experience in Buddhism that is different from Advaita Vedanta teaching.&nbsp; This is also the understanding of why Everything is the One Reality incorporating causes, conditions and luminosity of our Empty nature as One and inseparable.&nbsp; <strong>Everything as the One Reality should never be understood from a dualistic/inherent standpoint.</strong></p> <p>&nbsp;Indeed!&nbsp; You can see the how the view, practice and experience leading to the understanding of non-locality in terms of views, practices and experience.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Stage 6. The nature of Presence is Empty</strong></p> <p>Not only is there no ‘who’ in pristine awareness, there is no ‘where’ and ‘when’.&nbsp; This is its nature.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>When there is this, that is.<br /> With the arising of this, that arises.<br /> When this is not, neither is that.<br /> With the cessation of this, that ceases.</strong></p> <p><strong>-- the principle of conditionality</strong></p> <p>The self-luminous awareness from beginning-less time has never been separated and cannot be separated from its conditions. They are not two -- This is, That is. Along with the conditions, Luminosity shines without a center and arises without a place. No where to be found. This is the emptiness nature of Presence.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Hi Thusness,</p> <p>Thanks for this post.</p> <p>To me, the 'emptiness' aspect was the hardest for the mind to be 'convinced'. It was too different/far-away from how the dualistic mind understood things.</p> <p>But after a while, this truth becomes more clear.</p> <p>regards</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Tue, 20 May 2008 10:25:26 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8099453 longchen http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by longchen:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Hi Friend,</p> <p>Just my understanding only. For discussion sake. Also, I find this topic very interesting.</p> <p>What appears to us are registered by all the sense organs. The eye sight sees some thing, the ears hear something, etc ,etc. There are not happening in some place. They are the arising of certain conditions.</p> <p>To illustrate that what we experience is not standardised, we know that human beings see in term of colour range. Some animals are colour-blind. so they see differently. But none of us, is seeing the truth nature directly. The senses of different species of sentient beings experience things differently.</p> <p>Likewise, the 31 planes of existence are due to different conditions arising. In the jhana meditation, one is said to be able to access these planes of existence. This is because they are not specific locations. They are mental states. In the jhanas, our consciousness changes and 'aligned' more with these other states or planes of existence.</p> <p>All the planes of existence are simultaneously manifesting, but because our senses are human-based conditioned arisings, we only see the human world and other beings that shared 'similar' resonating arising conditions. But nevertheless, the other planes of existences are not elsewhere in some other places.</p> <p>What we think of as places are really just consciousness. .. no solidity whatsoever. Even our touch sense is just that. It gives an impression of feeling something 3D with textures and so on so forth. But there is no solid self-existing object there... it is simply the sensation that gives the impression of solidity.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> Hi Longchen,</p> <p>I can see the synchronization of emptiness view into your non-dual experiences --. Integrating view, practice and experience.&nbsp; This is the essence of our emptiness nature and right understanding of non-dual experience in Buddhism that is different from Advaita Vedanta teaching.&nbsp; This is also the understanding of why Everything is the One Reality incorporating causes, conditions and luminosity of our Empty nature as One and inseparable.&nbsp; <strong>Everything as the One Reality should never be understood from a dualistic/inherent standpoint.</strong></p> <blockquote> <div class="quote_body"> <p>This also explains the nature of 'supernatural power' like clairvoyance and seeing things far away, etc.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>&nbsp;Indeed!&nbsp; You can see the how the view, practice and experience leading to the understanding of non-locality in terms of views, practices and experience.<br /> &nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Stage 6. The nature of Presence is Empty</strong></p> <p>Not only is there no ‘who’ in pristine awareness, there is no ‘where’ and ‘when’.&nbsp; This is its nature.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>When there is this, that is.<br /> With the arising of this, that arises.<br /> When this is not, neither is that.<br /> With the cessation of this, that ceases.</strong></p> <p><strong>-- the principle of conditionality</strong></p> <p>The self-luminous awareness from beginning-less time has never been separated and cannot be separated from its conditions. They are not two -- This is, That is. Along with the conditions, Luminosity shines without a center and arises without a place. No where to be found. This is the emptiness nature of Presence.</p> Tue, 20 May 2008 08:36:14 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8099319 Thusness http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by Thusness:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Well said! :)</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>There is no 'the state'.&nbsp; Simply empty luminousity manifesting according to whatever conditions are.&nbsp;&nbsp;No here, no now, no 'I', no mine, no inner, no outer,&nbsp;no coming, no going anywhere.&nbsp; All these are merely 'impressions'.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Free from all inherent and dualistic views.&nbsp; Mere empty manifestation alone is.&nbsp; Fearlessly and openingly give up, drop and let go....</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> This is right.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 18:33:40 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097765 sofital http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by longchen:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Hi Friend,</p> <p>Just my understanding only. For discussion sake. Also, I find this topic very interesting.</p> <p>What appears to us are registered by all the sense organs. The eye sight sees some thing, the ears hear something, etc ,etc. There are not happening in some place. They are the arising of certain conditions.</p> <p>To illustrate that what we experience is not standardised, we know that human beings see in term of colour range. Some animals are colour-blind. so they see differently. But none of us, is seeing the truth nature directly. The senses of different species of sentient beings experience things differently.</p> <p>Likewise, the 31 planes of existence are due to different conditions arising. In the jhana meditation, one is said to be able to access these planes of existence. This is because they are not specific locations. They are mental states. In the jhanas, our consciousness changes and 'aligned' more with these other states or planes of existence.</p> <p>All the planes of existence are simultaneously manifesting, but because our senses are human-based conditioned arisings, we only see the human world and other beings that shared 'similar' resonating arising conditions. But nevertheless, the other planes of existences are not elsewhere in some other places.</p> <p>What we think of as places are really just consciousness. .. no solidity whatsoever. Even our touch sense is just that. It gives an impression of feeling something 3D with textures and so on so forth. But there is no solid self-existing object there... it is simply the sensation that gives the impression of solidity.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> I found some books they describe the distance between each planes of existence and which level But some planes of existence are at same level such as Human being , Animals (tiracchana yoni),etc. Maung Tiong Myay Zin Sayadaw 's Dhamma telescope to see 31 planes of existence and other objects http://www.dhammaweb.net/Sayadaw/subject.php?keyword=Maung%20Tiong%20Myay%20Zin%20Sayadaw I want to share Dhamma telescope to differentiate which one is right or wrong .Like a microsope enables to see minute particles and also as a telescope making distant objects appear larger and nearer.To acquire a ‘Dhamma Telescope’, one must practice Samatha-kammaṭṭhāna or ānāpānasati .Let go details in ānāpānasati . The Buddha taught ānāpānasati step by step: long breath, short breath, whole breath and subtle breath, only for easy understanding. At the time of actual practice, all four stages may occur at the same time. Then, if you can concentrate on the whole long breath, and the whole short breath for about one hour, then (as your concentra-tion improves) the breath will automatically become subtle, and you can change to concentrate on the subtle breath. When the subtle breath is long, you should try to know the whole, long,subtle breath; when the subtle breath is short, you should try to know the whole, short, subtle breath.If the breath does not become subtle by itself, you should concentrate on it (attention(manāsikāra)) with the decision that it should be subtle. That way it will become subtle, but you must not make the breath subtle on purpose, nor make it long or short on purpose; just decide that it should be calm. In this way, long breath, short breath, whole breath and subtle breath, all the four stages, are included in a single stage. A concentrated mind can usually create a nimitta. When concentration is deep, strong, and powerful, then because of different perceptions, different nimittas appear. For example, if you want the nimitta to be long, it will be long; if you want it to be short, it will be short; if you want it to be round, it will be round;if you want it to be red, it will be red. So various perceptions may arise while practising ānāpānasati. You may perceive yourself as outside the body. It is simply a mental creation, not because of a soul. It is not a problem. Just ignore it, and return to being mindful of your breath. Using a nimitta as Dhamma telescope, everything is vivid.All the cells of the body,circulation of blood and the like could be seen very clearly.Not only that.One could see celestial beings like Devas and Brahmas and son on and those suffering in hell. Explanation of 31 planes of Existence http://www.mediafire.com/?jmyxzuxlycm http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jmyxzuxlycm</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 18:32:28 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097760 sofital http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by sinweiy:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p><br /> thus heard, Ananda at first could not enter the First council, as he had not attain arahanthood. so he keep trying and trying and keep meditating and meditating; seeking and seeking very hard, but of no use. eventually, Ananda stop trying. the moment he stop trying, Ananda attained Arahanthood!</p> <p>/\</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> This is right. When Anada stop trying and intend to lay down on the bed, at the moment , he attained Arahanthood.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 18:12:21 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097711 sofital http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by longchen:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Hi Friend,</p> <p>Just my understanding only. For discussion sake. Also, I find this topic very interesting.</p> <p>What appears to us are registered by all the sense organs. The eye sight sees some thing, the ears hear something, etc ,etc. There are not happening in some place. They are the arising of certain conditions.</p> <p>To illustrate that what we experience is not standardised, we know that human beings see in term of colour range. Some animals are colour-blind. so they see differently. But none of us, is seeing the truth nature directly. The senses of different species of sentient beings experience things differently.</p> <p>Likewise, the 31 planes of existence are due to different conditions arising. In the jhana meditation, one is said to be able to access these planes of existence. This is because they are not specific locations. They are mental states. In the jhanas, our consciousness changes and 'aligned' more with these other states or planes of existence.</p> <p>All the planes of existence are simultaneously manifesting, but because our senses are human-based conditioned arisings, we only see the human world and other beings that shared 'similar' resonating arising conditions. But nevertheless, the other planes of existences are not elsewhere in some other places.</p> <p>What we think of as places are really just consciousness. .. no solidity whatsoever. Even our touch sense is just that. It gives an impression of feeling something 3D with textures and so on so forth. But there is no solid self-existing object there... it is simply the sensation that gives the impression of solidity.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Well said! :)</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>There is no 'the state'.&nbsp; Simply empty luminousity manifesting according to whatever conditions are.&nbsp;&nbsp;No here, no now, no 'I', no mine, no inner, no outer,&nbsp;no coming, no going anywhere.&nbsp; All these are merely 'impressions'.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Free from all inherent and dualistic views.&nbsp; Mere empty manifestation alone is.&nbsp; Fearlessly and openingly give up, drop and let go....</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 15:12:50 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097366 Thusness http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <p>Ajahn Chah (with Ajahn Liam)<br /> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu7mtlbVBOA" rel= "nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu7mtlbVBOA</a></p> <p><strong>"shouldn't be concern with Nibanna or attaining Nibanna. if you are, then that itself is preventing you from attaining Nibanna. So what's the main comcern of the monk? The aim is to let go. So you have to let go without striving to let go. let go without desire. if there's still desire and persude to do that, then that's not nibanna."<br /> Be mindful and let things take their natural cause, then your mind will be still like clear forest pool. all kinds of rare animals will come and drink at the pool. you will see many things come and go, and you will be still. Problems will arise, but you will see through them Immediately. This is the happiness of the Buddha!"</strong></p> <p>Ajahn Chah on Trying too Hard<br /> <a href= "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqyENJk0Bkg&amp;amp;feature=related" rel= "nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqyENJk0Bkg&amp;feature=related</a></p> <p>/\</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 13:36:16 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097255 sinweiy http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by sofital:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Right. Buddhas teach us no self. Ananda get the first Enlightenment from mirror Dhamma that is related to teaching of no self.<br /> No self is the foundation for the first Enlighenment. If we have a self , we cannot achieve the goal.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> thus heard, Ananda at first could not enter the First council, as he had not attain arahanthood. so he keep trying and trying and keep meditating and meditating; seeking and seeking very hard, but of no use. eventually, Ananda stop trying. the moment he stop trying, Ananda attained Arahanthood!</p> <p>/\</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 13:13:01 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097232 sinweiy http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by sofital:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p><br /> In prevoius topics. I mentioned the naming convention to Eternal Now.' Hereness', 'distance' and 'time' are naming convention.We use it for understanding among us. I think Samara is places. As Samara is places , Buddhas taught us 31 planes of existences.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Hi Friend,</p> <p>Just my understanding only. For discussion sake. Also, I find this topic very interesting.</p> <p>What appears to us are registered by all the sense organs. The eye sight sees some thing, the ears hear something, etc ,etc. There are not happening in some place. They are the arising of certain conditions.</p> <p>To illustrate that what we experience is not standardised, we know that human beings see in term of colour range. Some animals are colour-blind. so they see differently. But none of us, is seeing the truth nature directly. The senses of different species of sentient beings experience things differently.</p> <p>Likewise, the 31 planes of existence are due to different conditions arising. In the jhana meditation, one is said to be able to access these planes of existence. This is because they are not specific locations. They are mental states. In the jhanas, our consciousness changes and 'aligned' more with these other states or planes of existence.</p> <p>All the planes of existence are simultaneously manifesting, but because our senses are human-based conditioned arisings, we only see the human world and other beings that shared 'similar' resonating arising conditions. But nevertheless, the other planes of existences are not elsewhere in some other places.</p> <p>What we think of as places are really just consciousness. .. no solidity whatsoever. Even our touch sense is just that. It gives an impression of feeling something 3D with textures and so on so forth. But there is no solid self-existing object there... it is simply the sensation that gives the impression of solidity.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 12:51:28 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097189 longchen http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <p>Don’t misunderstand on me.I’m very curious for asking answers if I have a doubt or I don’t know it.Thanks for your contribution to me.<br /> In history of Theravada history, you heard the debate of King Milinda.<br /> The king Milinda also asked the very funny questions and complex questions to Nagasena Arahart. Nobody except for Nagasena Arahart can answer the questions of King Milinda.<br /> After the dialogues between them is over, King Milinda become realized his misunderstanding on Theravada monks. Finally, King Milinda was converted to monk and became a Arahart after his practice of meditation.</p> <p><a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/milinda.htm" rel= "nofollow">http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/milinda.htm</a>.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 12:31:44 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097172 sofital http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by longchen:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Samsara is also not place.. this is not a typo error. You will not understand this until non-duality is experienced.</p> <p>'Hereness', 'distance' and time are just impressions. They give the 'illusionary' impression of places. This also explains the nature of 'supernatural power' like clairvoyance and seeing things far away, etc.</p> <p>As i said before, you already have a fixed view of things. We will just leave it as that. :)</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p><br /> In prevoius topics. I mentioned the naming convention to Eternal Now.' Hereness', 'distance' and 'time' are naming convention.We use it for understanding among us. I think Samara is places. As Samara is places , Buddhas taught us 31 planes of existences.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 12:19:01 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097154 sofital http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by sofital:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>If you don’t believe what I said, you can ask Theravaddin master or teacher about rainbow body for clarification.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Theravadin does not have the method to realise rainnbow body, hence there is no point asking a Theravadin master about this. They probably will not know what it is and if they think they know what it is, they are mistaken. Hence we should not judge a particular teaching based on other perspectives or misunderstandings.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 11:48:49 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097103 An Eternal Now http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <p>http://timesendproductions.com/Buddhism.html</p> <p><span style= "font-family: Georgia; font-size: small;"><span style= "color: #000000;"><br /> “Based on the Tibetan terms <em>'lus'</em> (that which is left behind, ordinary body) and <em>'ja'</em> (rainbow, rainbow hue), the Rainbow Body …<span style= "text-decoration: underline;"><strong>is not so much a "body" but rather a vortex of energy into which certain adepts can apparently transform themselves on dying.</strong></span> Rather than leaving a corpse behind that needs to be cremated or chopped to pieces, highly accomplished men and women rather pass away in a mass of rainbow light. To use a Tibetan phrase, they "dissolve into space like a rainbow"; a process which - curiously enough - is reported as leaving the practitioners hair and nails behind as physical remnants.</span></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>http://www.surajamrita.com/bon/buddhahood.html</p> <p>Indeed Thodgal does possess a method for dissolving the impure physical body at the time of death or even before and then the Rainbow Body of Light manifests. But this is not a process of transforming an impure physical body into a pure Sambhogakaya. The method Proper to Dzogchen is not the path of transformation as is the case with the Tantras but the path of self liberation. So the procedure in Tantra and in Thodgal is quite different. To effect a transformation in vision and in energy Tantra employs visualization in terms of Kyerim and Dzogrim practice. We visualize ourselves in a Sambhogakaya form whether this be a peaceful or a wrathful manifestation. But in Dzogchen there is nothing to be visualized and nothing to be transformed. The visions which arise during the course of Thodgal are not visualizations. Visualization represents the work of the mind; visualizations are created by the mind. But Dzogchen is a state beyond the mind. So these visions which arise in Thodgal are not created by the mind or by unconscious karma <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>but they are a manifestation of what is already primordially present in the Natural State.</strong></span> The vision is not something created by causes but it is Lhundrub (Ihun grub) or spontaneously perfected. Since the Sambhogakaya is already fully inherent in the Natural State it simply manifests. Dzogchen alone discloses our real nature; Dzogchen has already discovered this inherent Buddhahood our real nature and so it can manifest the Sambhogakaya effortlessly. <strong>At the culmination of the Thodgal process at the stage of vision called the exhausting of everything into Reality (bon nyid zad pa) all of the visions that the practitioner experiences whether pure or impure dissolve into the Natural State. This includes our physical body which is the result of past karmic causes and represents our impure karmic vision. For the practitioner everything dissolves. This sets the stage for the spontaneous manifestation of the Sambhogakaya which has been present in potential in the Natural State from the very beginning. Since it is already there no primary cause for its manifestation is needed.</strong> [The secondary causes for its manifestation however are the purifications of obscurations along the path. This is like the winds removing the clouds from the sky so that the face of the sun becomes visible or like opening the doors to the temple so that the image of the Buddha can clearly be seen].</p> <p>If we examine the notion of Buddhahood from the logical standpoint we find that the Nirmanakaya and the Sambhogakaya are impermanent whereas the Dharmakaya alone is permanent. But when we further examine the Dhan-nakaya we discover that there are two sides to it. On the side of emptiness it is permanent but on the side of wisdom it is impermanent. The Kunzhi the basis of everything is permanent because it is emptiness but Rigpa is impermanent because it is not always manifest. These two Kunzhi and Rigpa are always inseparable (dbyer med) in the Natural State. On the side of emptiness (stong cha) there is permanence but on the side of clarity (gsal-cha) or awareness (rig-cha) there is impermanence. So the manifestation side is impermanent; it is changing all of the time whereas the emptiness side is constant and permanent. <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>We can logically distinguish these things when we speak about the Natural State but the Natural State is a totality and a perfect unity. Within it emptiness and clarity are inseparable and never otherwise. This inseparability or Yermed (dbyer med) is the essence of Dzogchen. To fall either on the side of emptiness or on the side of manifestation is to deviate from Dzogchen.</strong></span></p> <p>.</p> <p>.</p> <p>This lalu or Rainbow Body can appear in a material sense to sentient beings in order to teach them. The Rainbow Body is not material but appears to be so since it can act on all of the senses of a sentient being simultaneously. The Sambhogakaya can be perceived only by the Aryas the Boddhisattvas who have ascended the third, fourth, or fifth paths [that is the Paths of Vision of Meditation Development and Culmination]. They can hear the teachings of the Sambhogakaya whereas ordinary beings cannot see nor hear this manifestation. So it is the Nirmanakaya that they hear and perceive. To human beings this Nirmanakaya appears as human. In other worlds and with other species of beings the situation will be different. But the Rainbow Body as the potentiality of the Natural State is not limited to any particular form. It can appear in a myriad of different forms. The Natural State has been with us from the very beginning. We have done nothing more than to rediscover it continue in it and allow its potentiality to manifest. That is Buddhahood.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>.</p> <p>.</p> <p>E-Sangha:<br /> <br /> Rainbow body is the result of total realization of dharmakaya.<br /> <br /> Rainbow body is a realization of the nature of the union of appearances and emptiness with the added factor of the total realization that all phenomena are nothing other than the display of one's own wisdom. In this case, issues of permanent and impermanent are not longer germaine. One's realization is permanent, diverse and changing appearances are all ornaments to that realization. One's physical body vanishes in the perception of ordinary beings.</p> <p>.</p> <p>.</p> <p><br /> Rainbow body is a realization, not a physical process-- but to the deluded, it seems like something physical is happening.</p> <p>.</p> <p><br /> This is sort of a misconception (not your fault). When we said 'od kyi lus, body of light, we mean actually a body which is composed of the energy of the wisdom of rigpa.<br /> <br /> Well, everything, the five elements already is the energy of the wisdom of rigpa [rig pa'i ye shes gyi rtsal]. So, actually, a so called rainbow body is merely the reversion of the bodies elements back into the state of wisdom. There is actually no transformation at all.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 11:46:10 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097097 An Eternal Now http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Samsara is also not place.. this is not a typo error. You will not understand this until non-duality is experienced.</p> <p>'Hereness', 'distance' and time are just impressions. They give the 'illusionary' impression of places. This also explains the nature of 'supernatural power' like clairvoyance and seeing things far away, etc.</p> <p>As i said before, you already have a fixed view of things. We will just leave it as that. :)</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 11:41:01 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097087 longchen http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <p>You keep thinking that samsara and nirvana are places.</p> <p>As I mentioned before, only samsara is place and nirvana has no places</p> <p>Don’t make conclusion that you never have any awakening experiences based on Mahayana experiences</p> <p>I’m just asking only very simple questions and in a logical way .</p> <p>If you don’t believe what I said, you can ask Theravaddin master or teacher about rainbow body for clarification.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 11:35:46 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8097076 sofital http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by sofital:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>There is no mind and body is made of fine particles at 22 realm.This condition is similar with rainbow body that made of fine particles.Hence Is it still in Samara ?<br /> The Fine-Material World (rupa-loka)<br /> 22)Unconscious beings (asaññasatta) Only body is present; no mind.</p> <p>Scientists already proof there is a giant black hole in the universe .This giant black hole can attract every light , and fine particles. One day, in our universe, the sun is converted to a giant black hole .How rainbow body can escape from attraction of a black hole?</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Sofital,</p> <p>Aiyah......You keep thinking that samsara and nirvana are places. Obviously you never have any awakening experiences at all. All your knowledge are just read from elsewhere.</p> <p>The unborn Buddha nature has never at all been affected by any apparent destruction in the universe! Not a single bit! This enables the enlightened person to be fearless under all circumstances.</p> <p>So what if blackhole can suck light. The entire universe is alway in constant change... even right now. You keep thinking that there is a 'self' that needs to escape. And you think that the rainbow body is another 'self' and that this 'self' cannot escape blackhole.</p> <p>This manner of thinking will not lead you to awakening. It just breed your fear... driving you to seek a solution that is totally safe from all suffering. Right here, right now, know that there is no escape.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Can you understand this... at least conceptually?</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 10:16:59 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8096970 longchen http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <p>There is no mind and body is made of fine particles at 22 realm.This condition is similar with rainbow body that made of fine particles.Hence Is it still in Samara ?<br /> The Fine-Material World (rupa-loka)<br /> 22)Unconscious beings (asaññasatta) Only body is present; no mind.</p> <p>Scientists already proof there is a giant black hole in the universe .This giant black hole can attract every light , and fine particles. One day, in our universe, the sun is converted to a giant black hole .How rainbow body can escape from attraction of a black hole?</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 09:55:12 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8096954 sofital http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by sofital:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Why monk and people are creating new Buddhism group based on new theory, methods, meanings ,words, rules, disciplines and definition out of the Buddha teaching? What I study in three baskets of five collection is hand over by from First Buddhist Council to Sixth Buddhist Council. This is the original complete version of Buddha scripture according to Theravada Buddhism.</p> <p>Three Baskets or Five Collections<br /> 1. Dīgha Nikāya = Collection of Long Discourses<br /> 2. Majjhima Nikāya = Collection of Middle-Length Discourses<br /> 3. Saṃyutta Nikāya = Collection of Connected (Kindred) Discourses<br /> 4. Aṅguttara Nikāya = Collection of Numerical Discourses<br /> 5. Khuddaka Nikāya = Collection of Miscellaneous Texts – 15/18 Smaller Texts<br /> - Vinaya Piṭaka<br /> - Abhidhamma Piṭaka<br /> -Suttanta</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Theravadins may see their own doctrines as being the most original and reliable, but we Mahayanist/Vajrayanist see our own canon as equally valid and authentic. But whatever doctrines you can see the fundamental core of dharma (i.e. 3 dharma seals, emptiness, karma, dependent arising, etc) are present.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 01:01:36 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8096524 An Eternal Now http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by An Eternal Now:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Actually Theravadin insight meditation isn't look from the perspective of an observer, but nevertheless there are differences with the Dzogchen system of practice.</p> <p><a href= "http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/advanced/dzogchen/basic_points/introduction_dzogchen.html#n14882cdba2d9db0c6" rel= "nofollow">http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/advanced/dzogchen/basic_points/introduction_dzogchen.html#n14882cdba2d9db0c6</a></p> <h3><a name="n14882cdba2d9db0c25" rel="nofollow" id= "n14882cdba2d9db0c25"></a> <span style= "font-weight: normal;"><span>Vipassana</span></span></h3> <p><span>Vipassana</span> (<em>lhag-mthong</em>, Skt. <em>vipashyana</em>) meditation within the sphere of Theravada Buddhism entails noting and watching the arising and falling of moments of conceptual thinking, but not through the “eyes” of an independently existing “me” as the observer. Through this procedure, we realize the impermanence or fleeting nature of conceptual thought and of mental activity in general. We also realize that mental activity occurs without an independent agent “me” either observing it or making it happen.</p> <p><span>Dzogchen</span> meditation, in contrast, focuses on the simultaneous arising, abiding, and disappearing of moments of conceptual thinking – not simply noting or watching it. This allows us to recognize first effulgent rigpa – the aspect of rigpa that spontaneously establishes the appearance of simultaneously arising, abiding, and disappearing thoughts. It then allows us to recognize essence rigpa – the aspect of rigpa that serves as the cognitive space underlying every moment of mental activity and allowing for the spontaneous establishment of simultaneously arising, abiding, and disappearing thoughts.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>I see... Thanks for the info and clarification.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 00:55:08 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8096493 longchen http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by longchen:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>Hmmm... just writing from my understanding only. Not definitive.</p> <p>For jhana meditation, it is a kind of concentration. Your mind fixate on a object. When one get out of the meditation, the jhana states goes away. With Jhana meditation, insight may not necessarily arise. I did jhana meditation since 1985 and have since stop after realising that it did not produce any results towards enlightenment (for me). Also, in the jhana states, the workings of the self is not understood. There is always an observer (self) watching the changes of states. Also, the various systems have different ways of assessing the jhanas and they do not tally with one another.</p> <p>From my understanding, vipassana brings about awareness and mindfulness. However, it is working largely and initially at the mental level. The mind mentally notes whatever is occuring.</p> <p>From my understanding self-liberation (in Dzogchen) is working at a different level from Vipassana. It can only occur after going deep into and stabilizing firmly in no-self state. I am not at the self-liberation level so I can only speculate. My understanding is that arhats MAY NOT necessarily understand self-liberation. It is the stages beyond arhatship because it is working at levels that is not mental at all. The liberation is automatic without the arising of the 'self'. At the vipassana level, the mindfulness practice is at the mental level. In another word, the mental noting is through the 'observer self'. A grasping (in the form of a subtle self) is doing the mental noting in the case of vipassana. The depth is different.</p> <p>Note... I am not an arhat. I am making some assumptions here.</p> <p>Just my opinion only.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>Actually Theravadin insight meditation isn't look from the perspective of an observer, but nevertheless there are differences with the Dzogchen system of practice.</p> <p><a href= "http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/advanced/dzogchen/basic_points/introduction_dzogchen.html#n14882cdba2d9db0c6" rel= "nofollow">http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/advanced/dzogchen/basic_points/introduction_dzogchen.html#n14882cdba2d9db0c6</a></p> <h3 class=""><a name="n14882cdba2d9db0c25" rel="nofollow" id= "n14882cdba2d9db0c25"></a> <span style= "font-weight: normal;"><span class="">Vipassana</span></span></h3> <p><span class="">Vipassana</span> (<em>lhag-mthong</em>, Skt. <em>vipashyana</em>) meditation within the sphere of Theravada Buddhism entails noting and watching the arising and falling of moments of conceptual thinking, but not through the “eyes” of an independently existing “me” as the observer. Through this procedure, we realize the impermanence or fleeting nature of conceptual thought and of mental activity in general. We also realize that mental activity occurs without an independent agent “me” either observing it or making it happen.</p> <p><span class="">Dzogchen</span> meditation, in contrast, focuses on the simultaneous arising, abiding, and disappearing of moments of conceptual thinking – not simply noting or watching it. This allows us to recognize first effulgent rigpa – the aspect of rigpa that spontaneously establishes the appearance of simultaneously arising, abiding, and disappearing thoughts. It then allows us to recognize essence rigpa – the aspect of rigpa that serves as the cognitive space underlying every moment of mental activity and allowing for the spontaneous establishment of simultaneously arising, abiding, and disappearing thoughts.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Moreover, vipassana deals only with the grosser levels of mental activity, whereas dzogchen accesses the subtlest level, rigpa.</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 00:46:27 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8096471 An Eternal Now http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <blockquote> <div class="quote_from">Originally posted by sofital:</div> <div class="quote_body"> <p>The material body returns to its rainbow-light essence.Hence Is the destination rainbow-light essence?But how you clarify that light is made of fine particles? What is inside rain-light essence?As you said, the rainbow-light essence is permanent. If it is permanent, how can people cannot see it? Is it invisible form? How you proof that law of conservation energy of light? Energy cannot be destroyed or created .only can be transformed to another.</p> </div> </blockquote> <p>The reason why we can't see the rainbow body is because of our strong karmic vision that 'confines us' to see 'things' as 'material, existing objects out there' with a fixed inherent existence. It's said those with pure vision can see the rainbow body.</p> <p>Our karmic vision arises giving rise to the infinite variety of forms that a human being experience, and we become attached to these that we miss its original essence. Just like a dog may see a black and white flower, we may see a red flower, if we were to see the world with a quantum glass we will find mostly (99.999%) space without any perceivable forms. It is our karmic vision that gives rise to the variety of visions which we ignorantly believed to be a solid reality.</p> <p>If we realised the truth of dependent arising, and hence all perceived phenomena are empty of self-nature/essence/inherent existence, are mere luminous-emptiness appearances, then we can begin to detach ourselves from these visions.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Zen Master Dogen Zenji writes about the difference of viewing water depending upon the karmic conditions of each being in Shobogenzo Sansuikyo (Mountains and Waters Sutra) as follows.</p> <blockquote> <p class="">The ways of viewing mountains and waters are different depending upon what kind of beings we are. There are some beings that view water as a jewel. However, this does not mean that they view a jewel [for human beings] as water. How do we see what they view as water? What they see as a jewel is what we see as water. Some beings see water as wondrous flowers. But they do not use flowers [for human beings] as water. Hungry ghosts view water as raging fire or as pus and blood. Dragons and fish view it as a palace or a lofty building. [Some beings] see it as the seven treasures or the mani jewel. [Others] see it as a forest or walls, or as the dharma nature of immaculate liberation, or as the true human body, or as body as the form and mind as the nature. Human beings view it as water. And these [different ways of viewing] are the conditions under which [water] is killed or given life.</p> </blockquote> <p>&nbsp;</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 00:37:48 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8096451 An Eternal Now http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <p>Hmmm... just writing from my understanding only. Not definitive.</p> <p>For jhana meditation, it is a kind of concentration. Your mind fixate on a object. When one get out of the meditation, the jhana states goes away. With Jhana meditation, insight may not necessarily arise. I did jhana meditation since 1985 and have since stop after realising that it did not produce any results towards enlightenment (for me). Also, in the jhana states, the workings of the self is not understood. There is always an observer (self) watching the changes of states. Also, the various systems have different ways of assessing the jhanas and they do not tally with one another.</p> <p>From my understanding, vipassana brings about insights, awareness and mindfulness. However, it is working largely and initially at the mental level. The mind mentally notes whatever is occuring.</p> <p>From my understanding self-liberation (in Dzogchen) is working at a different level from Vipassana. It can only occur after going deep into and stabilizing firmly in no-self state. I am not at the self-liberation level so I can only speculate. My understanding is that arhats MAY NOT necessarily understand self-liberation. It is the stages beyond arhatship and it is working at levels that is not mental or conceptual at all. The liberation is automatic. At the vipassana level, the mindfulness practice is more at the mental level. The depth is different.</p> <p>Note... I am not an arhat. I am making some assumptions here. But i am already experiencing the arising and automatic release of tensions that is without the need of volitional mental noting.</p> <p>Just my opinion only.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 00:35:49 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8096443 longchen http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713 <p>Why monk and people are creating new Buddhism group based on new theory, methods, meanings ,words, rules, disciplines and definition out of the Buddha teaching? What I study in three baskets of five collection is hand over by from First Buddhist Council to Sixth Buddhist Council. This is the original complete version of Buddha scripture according to Theravada Buddhism.</p> <p>Three Baskets or Five Collections<br /> 1. Dīgha Nikāya = Collection of Long Discourses<br /> 2. Majjhima Nikāya = Collection of Middle-Length Discourses<br /> 3. Saṃyutta Nikāya = Collection of Connected (Kindred) Discourses<br /> 4. Aṅguttara Nikāya = Collection of Numerical Discourses<br /> 5. Khuddaka Nikāya = Collection of Miscellaneous Texts – 15/18 Smaller Texts<br /> - Vinaya Piṭaka<br /> - Abhidhamma Piṭaka<br /> -Suttanta</p> Mon, 19 May 2008 00:31:42 +0800 sgforums.com:1728:317713:8096424 sofital http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/317713